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Poor rapport with others and social withdrawal

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Poor rapport with others and social withdrawal

Postby OnoO » Thu May 29, 2014 10:01 am

I have done my private research in 90' and one of main problems :
Are people with STPD awkward and terrible in social interactions because they don't WANT to interact, OR because they CAN'T suitably interact? I am strongly for second one and I can say why, but I am curious about your opinion, so what do you think ? (btw I am stpd positive)
Last edited by OnoO on Fri May 30, 2014 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poor rapport with others and social withdrawal

Postby Always_Question » Thu May 29, 2014 12:38 pm

For myself it is a combination of both.

I think my social problems started out by having more and more difficulty interacting with others, and then I just kind of stopped desiring interactions, maybe because they stopped being rewarding and were more painful. But, if I could interact well I think I would act on the ability. Life appears easier and more enjoyable to people I observe who appear to have no social problems.
If my post does not make sense, is too vague, or incoherent, ask for clarification if it would be helpful.

Dx's: Schizoaffective Disorder, Schizotypal PD, Boarderline traits, and Anxiety disorders
Rx: Gabapentin and Clonazepam.
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Re: Poor rapport with others and social withdrawal

Postby T.A. Anderson » Thu May 29, 2014 4:11 pm

Most sheep do look to be reasonably content. This is a philosophical question that we all face. Do I take the red pill or the blue pill? I've taken both. The blue pill only works for a while. Eventually your mind will reject it. You want to see reality without the mass delusions.
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Re: Poor rapport with others and social withdrawal

Postby OnoO » Fri May 30, 2014 2:18 pm

Always_Question wrote:For myself it is a combination of both.

I think my social problems started out by having more and more difficulty interacting with others, and then I just kind of stopped desiring interactions, maybe because they stopped being rewarding and were more painful. But, if I could interact well I think I would act on the ability. Life appears easier and more enjoyable to people I observe who appear to have no social problems.


That's exactly my conclusion, I had only same doubts because conclusion was based on some german study from 1993 about schizophrenia.
The study was something like: communication in social situation is complex problem: reading facial expressions, body language, hear what they are saying, be aware of overall social background of people involved, estimate what others are thinking in difference what they are saying, what others are thinking I am thinking, what others are thinking I am thinking what others are thinking(lol sorry I can't resist), ALL that in one moment, that's what our brains (brains of people with STPD) can't accomplish in real time. Sad side of problem is, that we need social interactions like others, we can in quiet solitary understand what's going on in social interactions, we only can't participate as full-fledged participants in such social interactions.
It's like some old Grecian tragedy: thirsty man staying waist deep in water, and the water always disappearing before he could take a drink.
So I think withdrawal is secondary and only response to difficulties in social interactions.
Last edited by OnoO on Fri May 30, 2014 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poor rapport with others and social withdrawal

Postby OnoO » Fri May 30, 2014 2:55 pm

T.A. Anderson wrote:Most sheep do look to be reasonably content. This is a philosophical question that we all face. Do I take the red pill or the blue pill? I've taken both. The blue pill only works for a while. Eventually your mind will reject it. You want to see reality without the mass delusions.


Thanks, that's feeling in which most of us sooner or later will end unfortunately :)
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Re: Poor rapport with others and social withdrawal

Postby Goldstein » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:48 pm

They both come hand in hand, but I was aware of the first before the second. I don't think they can be divided though. You know already how to come to the first from the second. But you can also come from the first to the second.

If you don't get rewards for interactions, then you will be less inclined to learn the skills necessary, and you might be tempted to take shortcuts. I usually don't take myself into account when looking at others behavior, and I don't take other people into account when looking at my own behavior. That is a shortcut that makes it easier to interact, but will cause interpersonal problems. And the reason to take that shortcut is that I don't get rewards for being like the others, on the contrary. And being like someone else is wanting a rapport.

So I think they are the same thing, in the end.
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Re: Poor rapport with others and social withdrawal

Postby OnoO » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:47 pm

Goldstein wrote: You know already how to come to the first from the second. But you can also come from the first to the second.
If you don't get rewards for interactions, then you will be less inclined to learn the skills necessary, and you might be tempted to take shortcuts.
So I think they are the same thing, in the end.


I don't think withdrawal is coming in one step after long time failures in social relations, you are probably right that it's circle failure -> more withdraw -> lesser skills and practice -> more failures -> more withdrawal.
My point was that we are not withdrawing voluntarily, but in essence we are forced by impossibility of normal social relations.
Some source:http://schizotypaldisorder.webs.com/schizotypaldisorder.htm
"They are not inclined to prefer isolation; they frequently move to greater and greater isolation via social distress and rejection."
Also looks to me important similarity between schizophrenia a STPD, most likely similar causation.
One of "hardware" (or brain hardcoded) problem is inability to read correctly facial expresions which is one of core abilities of social interaction.
For example http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/3/399.abstract, interesting sources are also at the end in "articles citing this article".
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Re: Poor rapport with others and social withdrawal

Postby Goldstein » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:04 pm

OnoO wrote:My point was that we are not withdrawing voluntarily, but in essence we are forced by impossibility of normal social relations.

Maybe in the beginning, but eventually it can become voluntary. Once you realize that it is useless.

The problem though from a conceptual point of view, is that you can have social difficulties, but it does not explain the schizotype ambivalence in social relationships. Like for example, aspergers have difficulties as well, but many of them do not withdraw, because they get the same social positive reinforcements as a normal person.
So even though there is some cognitive problems, there are also emotional problems that point to a not really wanting relationships, or getting rid of them when you have them. So the anhedonia also has to be taken into account.
Of course it can depend on the person, but generally, it seems both go together.
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Re: Poor rapport with others and social withdrawal

Postby OnoO » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:29 pm

Goldstein wrote:
...because they get the same social positive reinforcements as a normal person...


With STPD mostly you cannot receive positive reinforcements because of missing receiver ;)
Must of us will withdraw because life amidst monsters without response to our kindness is harsh.
Ambivalence is easy to explain: as man with normal intellect I know I need people and I need relations, but because of dysfunction of rewarding system something in me give up (after long time, in my case kind of break was about 33 y. of age).
So for the chicken or the egg causality dilemma, chicken was clearly first.
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Re: Poor rapport with others and social withdrawal

Postby Goldstein » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:25 pm

What I can say for sure is that I was withdrawn from birth, as compared to normal people.
I was not totally isolating, so that last step came from social failures.
Some of those failures are caused by being withdrawn, and some others have more to do with understanding reality.
And both reinforce themselves.

So for me, there is no such thing as chicken and egg causality, because the egg is a chicken egg. Oo
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