Schizotypal Forum

I have a view on religion that is somewhat complicated.

To start off, I would say that people would categorize me as an atheist. However, I would categorize myself as an agnostic, because I believe along with Richard Dawkins, that anyone who thinks you can be 100% sure of God's nonexistence without scientific evidence is undoubtedly wrong.

Here's my theory. Basically, the origin of life isn't important. It happened, and we're here. I personally subscribe to the popular scientific "theory" of this day and age, Darwinian Evolution, to explain how we came to be so complex (by my own standards). The origin of religion is easily explained, in my opinion: people slowly evolved into what we would call "consciousness," and they didn't understand things. Think about the wonders of the natural world that modern science has reduced to expected occurrences; prehistoric man had no such luxuries. Even simple things must have been ambiguous at best, and terrifying in many cases. Take a few examples: rain- droplets of wetness falling from the sky! what could be more confusing than that? especially to a human with basic reasoning skills, who might assume that the rain began in response to something he or the primates around him had done. I know from personal experience that I am inclined to think that the thunder is happening because of something I did or did not do, part of my SPD.

Prehistoric man didn't have any way to explain these things he experienced, so what do humans do when they don't understand something? Attribute it to divinity! Yes, even in our "enlightened" times you still hear it everywhere you turn. Turn on the t.v. in 2005, and you were likely to hear some Evangelical with a southern drawl saying "New Orleans is a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah! It was a city of sin, and God destroyed it!," along with some ill-understood and misused biblical quotation. Especially with the human tendency to only believe things that support their beliefs, called confirmation bias, which was probably present in even the earliest humans to some degree, if not more so than it is now.

If you're not convinced (which you shouldn't really be), think about this. Humans have an innate, overpowering fear of what we don't understand. I can list several, extremely obvious but subtle examples: (1) nature before modern science, (2) racism, and, (3) most importantly, death.

(1) Just to illustrate once more how strong this inherent human reaction can be, let's take a look back a few hundred years to a little town called Salem. Most Americans know exactly what it is, but if you don't, google/wiki the words Salem Witch Trials. Basically, a bunch of ultra-religious nutjobs started burning a bunch of other people simply because they were accused of being witches, some of whom might have been innocent of anything but dislike by a neighbor, others who actually seemed a bit off, who we might have thought were witches had we been alive at the time. Well, modern science has determined that the entire fiasco was due to multiple factors, including the ingestion a certain fungus called Claviceps Purpurea found on rye, and all having nothing to do with witchcraft. But, as is obvious, the people of the village were sincerely convinced, in some cases, that the people who were acting so abnormally were practicing black magic, and had to be done away with as they were heretics. Thus: people don't understand, must be magic.

(2) Racism is a relatively easy one to understand, and I'll put it in a short and mildly stereotypical conversation between a white and black man.
Whitey: "Hey there, Blacky!"
Blacky: "Sup, Whitey."
Whitey: "Say, Blacky, you sure do talk funny!"
Blacky: "Say what? I was thinkin' the same thing about you, cracka!"
Whitey: "But I'm white, we talk right. You guys are the ones who don't!"
Blacky: "Man, you be trippin'! We be the ones who talk right. And what about the way you crackas dress?"
Whitey: "But Blacky, we're the ones who dress right! You people are all wrong with your 'do-rags, and your pants that don't fit!"
Blacky: "Whitey, somethin just occurred to me. Maybe we both just don't like things that are different from ourselves!"
Whitey: "Well gosh, Blacky. I think you might be on to something! I don't really like anyone who looks, acts, talks, or smells different than I do!"
Blacky: "Thas what I'm sayin'! Cool, well, I'm off to the hood, G."
Whitey: "Yeah, I guess I am, too! I mean, ah-eet, gee dawg!"
*queue the '80s comedy laughtrack*

It's that simple. People don't like things that are different than they are, and it serves more than one important (if unnecessary) purpose. For one, if everyone liked everyone else's culture, societies would change, and change is rarely perceived as a good thing by people who don't know exactly what the change will mean. This is just one of many sociological theories on this subject.

(3) Ah, death. This, the great equalizer. That which everyone experiences, but no one ever has. The reason death is such a terrifying concept for most people, is that we don't know what is going to happen. From one viewpoint, death is exactly like what life was like before you were born: in other words, nothing. Hard to imagine, isn't it? But, for most people, it's pretty frightening. Why is that? It's because the human brain has a built-in function that's very important: it wants to survive. If consciousness didn't matter, then death wouldn't be frightening to anyone, except for, perhaps, the pain, but that isn't pertinent to this argument. On the other hand, would death be as frightening if we knew with certainty what to expect? It really depends. If we knew to expect an afterlife based on our virtue in life as directed by, say, Catholicism, then most people would feel immense relief. On the other hand, if we knew to expect a definite end to consciousness in any form, it seems like most people would feel no better about death than before. And why? Logically, it is probably because we do not know how to conceptualize not existing. In essence, it's like trying to imagine living, but without the living-- in other words, it's completely beyond our experience. On the other hand, if we think about that possibility and feel the terror that naturally comes with it, things feel much better if we posit that there is some form of a continuance of life after death. I mean, at least for me personally, even an afterlife of torment sounds better than not existing, because if you don't exist, you don't get to think, "hey, I don't exist." So to me, it seems logical to conclude that any thoughts about the afterlife stem from an inherent human fear of the unknown of the most likely end, which we can barely fathom.

So this is my theory on why religion exists. It hinges on the fact that early man/woman did what I already mentioned: automatically assuming some divine hand in things they could not explain, and not being able to cope with/fathom a non-existence, so they decided to believe that existence continues after death.

And that is a summary of the justification of my personal religious belief. Feel free to ask questions if you took the time to read it over. Remember that my actual belief system is slightly more complex than this, but it is based on the above enumerated factors.

Regards ~

Christ, Matt, you're writing a novel!

I must say I only skimmed it, but I probably agree with you on a lot of points.

I don't have a particular religion, per sé, but I subscribe to various different philosophies which influence my religious beliefs.

If I had to classify myself as anything, I'd say I draw a lot from different religions, but in particular, Taoism and Stoicism. Even though they're both practically extinct or near impossible to practice, they have a lot of ideas and beliefs that I resonate with or manage to describe some of my feelings regarding religion in general.

And I also don't believe in the personified idea of God. If God is infinity, then God can not be simply described or labeled, especially not as something as simple as a human or humanoid-like creature. It would also suggest that God can not have one specific opinion, but rather an unlimited amount of collective viewpoints. Which is what, for me, contradicts everything that some of the more... Popular religions preach. If good and evil are viewpoints, then God can have them both. And not simply be limited to one or the other.

This is where my relativism influences my religion. But I'd rather not get into a debate about that *Crosses fingers*. I like that this place is diverse and varied. Makes it more interesting.

Becasue of inidivualism(gr?) I believe god is an equal in a weird way. It doesn't mean that god is not omnipitant or anysuch. Instead what I mean to imply is that one's own personal relationship with god should be explored openly, without any religious doctrine attached. Cuss at him/her, tell jokes, talk about your ideas and stuff. Who knows, perhaps god answers.
Still, there is no religion I see that is "THE" right one. Alot of them bring up salient points that another may miss. And they all have a tendency to say basically the same thing, though how they interprit what they see depends on social/current events issues. Ok, I think I am rambling now so I'm gonna cut this post short...ninja vanish *poof*

QuietStorm wrote:I don't really like the idea of religion. I grew up in a family with parents who were extremely dedicated to Catholicism. I even went to a Catholic grade school up until 8th grade. I enjoy studying religions, though, and have found Hinduism & Buddhism to be especially interesting. I guess I'm more philosophical.. maybe even a ninja philosopher! Yeah, that was completely random.

*points to his previous post* Perhaps it was subconscious?

When I tell people i beleive in God they tend to imagine me clutching a rosary and saying my hail Mary's. Or they think it was through some intense brain washing as a kid...but the truth is, it wasnt. It was a revalation...(or halucination)...
I just know it was freaky.
I didnt see God or anything but I understood the idea of, an eternal force shall we call it for now. The font of all energy..energy which in turn, became mass, a kind of evolution. God (or the eternal energy) was the first and last thing ever to exist. Did exist, does exist and will exist.
The ultimate supreme energic being...not some man wanting revenge, or some sadistic divine creature wanture to torture us..we manage that quite well on our own..
Gonna stop here before I start digressing...

I actually am religious. I follow the Pentecostal side of protestantism. If anyone knows anything about that vs. what my situation is it would probably be seen as a good fit. The church I attend is the Assemblies of God.

Im not religious at all, i believe in the big bang theory, shadow universes, shadow people, dark matter... its all here right now beisde us, in this room another world! one day it will be discovered, im sure of it!

I am an atheist so although I feel as if I am surrounded by religion and people who adopt it, I do not adhere to any popular religious system. I also don't believe in any sort of god and am an agnostic in terms of god since I can't verify or deny it. I still greatly dislike religion, especially the way people have convinced themselves. I am at a point where I don't debate religion with people and have tried to debate other topics to improve my abilities as a debater and thinker, but I do feel secure about defending my non-religious stance.